Ep 105: Unmasking Creativity: You are Enough, No Matter Your Neurotype | Angie Dixon
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So today I have Angie Dixon with me. Angie is a multi-passionate author, artist, summit host, and proudly neuros spicy human, who spent way too many years trying to squeeze herself into the beige human template. Angie's work sits at the crossroads of creativity, neurodivergence. And she coined the term the Leonardo trait nearly 20 years ago to describe people whose minds refuse to sit quietly in one box.
So welcome, Angie. Hi. Thank you, Sam. So let's start with your story. Angie, tell us about your journey and how creativity has become such an integral part of your life and your work. Right. I've always been creative. I, my entire life I used to scribble Before I could, before I learned to write, I would get a notebook and, and scribble in it.
And I was [00:01:00] always fascinated with paint when I was young, finger paints, poster paints, you know, we would paint an art class and I always had paints at home. I've always been creative. Um. When I was in kindergarten, I was five. I, uh, took all the paper off the shelf in the classroom and my teacher said, you have to put back all but one piece of paper.
And I had a best friend in kindergarten who was this little scrawny kid named Mark, and he stood up as tall as he could and he said, she's gonna write a book. My teacher said, well, she'll have to write it one piece of paper at a time. So I did, I've written many books. The Leonardo Trait is my master work.
I'm working on the fourth edition of it. Okay. I've been writing this book for 20 years, as you said. Um, how it started was I was visiting my best friend four hours away to see her [00:02:00] daughter in a play. And we were all sitting around talking and my friend asked me what I'd been reading and I said, I've been reading about creativity, but these books just don't really apply to me.
One of them had. A suggestion that you have a, a file cabinet for each of your projects, right? Which would, would require a warehouse for me. And I have trouble getting my socks matched and in the right drawer, so there's no way I was gonna do a file cabinet. And the other book, I say it's closer, but it's still not quite right.
She's referring to creative people as Ben Franklin's. And innovative, and, and you know, that's, that's close, but I just still don't think it's the right book for me. And her daughter said, well, who do you think is the model? And without even thinking about it, I said, Leonardo da Vinci. [00:03:00] And she said, oh, that's interesting.
I said, I think there are certain traits like multi-passionate and. Curious and you know, always moving, always doing something different. I said, I think there's maybe a Leonardo trait. And Judy, my best friend, said, you know, you have to write that book now. And I kind of went, eh, you know, maybe. And then the next morning I started writing it because there are these traits that, that people Leonardos have, and.
As I wrote the book the first time, I really learned a lot about myself and I wrote two more editions of it. And then two years ago I was diagnosed with autism and that really explained a lot for me. Okay. And I knew I had adhd, but autism just really opened up my world, and I realized I really hadn't been writing the right book.
Mm-hmm. [00:04:00] I rewrote billion trait with Neurodivergence in mind. Right. Okay. So it didn't start with that, then it started as something a little bit different and it's morphed into that. Right. I always had adhd in mind. Okay. And I mentioned, you know, a lot of Leonards have a DHD, but I had no idea about the autism.
Okay. And so why is this concept, this, um, concept of the Leonardo trait, you know, why is it so important for people. Well, it's just really important because, you know, you mentioned out of the box, and I was thinking about that this morning and I thought, what if the box was something else? I thought, what would it be?
Just an out box, but what if it was a hamster wheel? Right. What if the box was a hamster wheel? We were all on it trying to get somewhere, but we, but the wheel wasn't pointed in the right direction. Yeah. [00:05:00] So, and this is something I'm still thinking about 'cause I was just thinking about today, but I think it's really important that Leonardo.
Feel free to be who they really are. Okay. That's what it's always been about for me. Yeah. Okay. And so on that note then, how important do you think creativity is as part of accepting who we truly are and living a fulfilled life? I think everyone is creative in some way. Some people write, some people paint.
Yeah, some people cook, some people write software and create amazing things that other people can use. Mm-hmm. Some people are very creative with car repair, for instance. I think everybody has creativity and I think it's really important to use your creativity. Building the life that you want. Mm. And you know, there's a real vulnerability, you know, [00:06:00] to creativity, I think, which is part of, it's a power, I believe.
Um, and I think I've seen that you describe this sort of as the pros process of unmasking for neurodivergent, um, people. Can you talk a bit about, um, the vulnerability in unmasking, you know, as we lean into our creativity and really own it. Absolutely it is vulnerable and I recommend when people start kind of taking off this mask of this performing being, mm-hmm.
Or neurotypical human, I always say Don't do. Everything at once. Don't do this huge masking. Sure. 'cause it will be very uncomfortable for you. Mm-hmm. And it's not something I recommend. One example I use is that if you're very buttoned up at work and you don't tell jokes or you don't, but you're normally a very joking person and you tell a lot of jokes and humor is [00:07:00] one of your core strengths, I always say that.
If you are very buttoned up at work, you could start by, you know, telling one joke to one person and maybe do that once a week and then expand that to, if they're accepting of that, then tell a joke two or three times a week and then expand to start being more humorous in the, in the workplace. Test the waters a little bit before you, you jump off the bridge.
Right. Right. And I always urge people to do exactly what they're comfortable with. Mm-hmm. And unmasking can be very, very vulnerable, as you said, and very difficult. And it can be, you know, very, a very emotional thing. Hmm. Thing to, to be to unmask. And I very much don't recommend that people [00:08:00] just jump in.
Um, I always say start being a little more personal with people that you trust. Yeah. And, you know, and just do what you're comfortable with. It's sort of it, you know, just a little bit. Yeah. And so do you think as we unmask then, or, you know, um, you know, step into that more vulnerable space, do you think that that unlocks, um, you know, a deeper level of creativity for us or a more true level of creativity?
Like it does. Um, the more you are true to yourself, the more you're going to discover about yourself. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And the deeper it goes, and the more you think about things, the more you think about things. Yeah. You know, it's just saying that I had this thought today of what if it's not out of the box?
What if it's something else? And I'm always thinking about these things and. You know, evolving new [00:09:00] ideas and almost every time I do a podcast, I have something new to say. Yeah. Because I will, I will think of something during the podcast or I'll talk to someone else. Yeah. Between the podcast and they'll say something I'll, oh yeah, I have to start using that.
I have to start working that idea in you. Of course. Not using their words. No, no. Unless I credit them. Yeah. But that's, it's all inspiration, isn't it? That's a great idea. And I have to, I have to think about how that idea fits with, with my work. Yeah, and it's a bit like building a muscle, isn't it? You know, like, um, for athletes or something, you know, the more you kind of lean into it, the more ideas you have.
Um, you know, the more skills you develop, the more ideas you generate. So it's very powerful, isn't it? Yes. You know, creativity is a muscle. And I also used to say creativity is a verb that you do. Okay. Creativity. Yeah. Um. [00:10:00] I just, my whole life has always been centered around my creativity. I went to college, I was gonna be a photojournalist because I was a very avid photographer.
I ended up majoring in English and becoming a writer. But, uh, I was still a photographer. Um, I got hurt a few years ago and I'm disabled. Mm-hmm. And I can't really do photography well, so I took a painting. Right. And. So there's always been this creativity as the core of my life. Mm-hmm. It's one of my, if I had to name my top five values, creativity would be in the top five and possibly in the top three.
Yeah, sure. Okay. Okay. And so, you know, as we go, um, on this path and we are sort of, um. You know, unleashing that creative inner gold that we, that we all have somewhere buried inside. Um, how do we, um, you know, honor, honor that [00:11:00] experience without feeling like we're either too much or not enough? That's one of my favorite things to talk about.
Um. There's a couple of things. One is we tend to judge our insides by other people's outsides. Mm-hmm. So we're looking at someone and thinking, oh, they have it all together and I should be like, they look. Mm-hmm. And nobody has it all together. Everybody has their things and also. There is no, I should be like that.
We are not broken neurotypicals. Mm-hmm. We are perfect neurodivergent people. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And neurodivergent individuals. I know I often felt like I was too much. Mm-hmm. Or that I wasn't enough of too much of the wrong things. Yeah. Not enough of the right things. Yeah. And the truth is that [00:12:00] the right people.
Will love us for who we are. Mm-hmm. And when we're with the wrong people, we just have to check that out sometimes. Mm-hmm. You know, if it's work, if we're not in the right environment now, if our friends don't accept us for who we are, we need new people. Yeah. But at at work, certainly there's sometimes a need to try to be a little more.
Neurotypical presenting. Mm-hmm. But even then, I say, do the best you can and be you as much as you can. But the people who are really our people, they will love and value us for who we are. Mm-hmm. Because again, I just can't emphasize enough the one not broken neurotypicals. I think that's the most important thing I ever say.
Mm. Is that we are enough and more than enough really. We're not too much. [00:13:00] We are who we are. That's a really powerful belief system. Um, you know, um, and I guess when you are in front of the, the, the people that don't get, get it, that aren't your people, having that strong belief system behind you, knowing that your people are out there or, you know, maybe these people need to, um, take, take the exit door.
It's a really powerful thing to hold onto. Um. You know, how do people cultivate that more, that belief system? I think, again, it's a muscle and you have to really practice just telling yourself, I'm not broken, I'm not too much, I'm not. Too little. Yeah. That this is who I am and, and who I am is valuable. I mean, the world doesn't need another Angie or another Sam.
What we need is a real Angie and a real Sam. Yeah. Yeah. That's it. And the world. [00:14:00] There's. There's a quote that I like from Maryanne Williamson. I haven't read much of her work. I don't know much about her, but I remember seeing a quote from her that the world is not served by your thinking small. Mm-hmm. Mm.
That's powerful. And I just think that's, that's really a powerful quote. Mm. So you can, how can people who are, who identify as neurodivergent, how can they actively, you know, with intention, use creativity to thrive more in life? I think bringing creativity into every aspect of your life, it takes a while.
Um, you may have to think, how can I bring creativity and do creating spreadsheets? Maybe you have to think about what is a better way to do what I'm doing? What is a more creative way of explaining what I'm explaining? [00:15:00] But I think trying to bring creativity into your life in. Everything you do is important.
I also think it's really important that everyone spend some time every week. I would say preferably every day. Doing their creative thing. Hmm. Um, even if you, only, if all you can do is sit down and organize your paints Yeah. Then at least you're in your art space, touching your art materials. And I do that sometimes if I don't have the time or don't feel like really painting.
Mm-hmm. I just go sit at my art table. And organize things or look through the my inks to see what colors I might need to buy. Mm-hmm. You know, that kind of kind of thing. Yeah. Or even, you know, um, looking at stuff that you've created before, you know, witnessing the, the work that you've made. You know, that can be a really powerful way to kind of have that [00:16:00] quiet, creative time as well without actively making something new.
Do you agree with that? Oh, absolutely. And another thing I do is I, like, I have a lot of inspiration photos, a painting saved on my phone. Mm-hmm. And if for some reason I'm having a really bad day with my chronic pain, I can just look at my phone and look through these paintings and think, oh, I wanna do something like.
Yeah, but I wanna do it with these colors and I want, you know, I might even get my sketchbook out and just kind of make some notes or some drawings about what I wanna do. Mm-hmm. So what does your own creative rhythm or your creative practice look like, you know, and how does it change through your different life seasons?
Um, right now I'm mostly writing. Um, I've just finished a book, I'm taking a break from [00:17:00] that and I'm getting back into painting, but I had been doing mostly writing for several months. Mm-hmm. Because I was getting the Leonardo trait finished and out the door. I'm getting back into. Painting and there's a company, I don't know where they're based, somewhere in the US and they sell art in retired cigarette vending machines.
Oh, we used to have these, these vending machines. I remember them when I was like seven or eight. We had these vending machines and you could go and put in, I don't know, a dollar or something and you got a pack of cigarettes. So this company sells. Tiny art in these vending machines, and I've been accepted.
I've done work for them before, and I'm doing some small paintings to sell in vending machines, so I'm getting back into doing that. I try to work on my painting. Three or four [00:18:00] times a week. Mm-hmm. I do have some limitations physically, so I can't always do as much as I, like. Some weeks I can do more than I plan.
Some weeks I'm just in bed with my sketch pad, just drawing or doodling. But I do try to do something creative every day, even if, like we said, it's just looking or touching my art supplies. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Do you believe that creativity helps us connect to something bigger than ourselves and something, you know, that's a bit wiser than all the labels of our human experience or our neurodivergence?
I do. I think it connects us to everyone who's ever been creative. Mm-hmm. And I think not just, you know, not just like Leonardo da Vinci or Frida Kahlo, but. The person across the city who's also [00:19:00] painting or the person in Australia who's also painting while I'm painting. Uh, here, I think there's a real connection.
And when I meet other really creative people, there's like this spark between us, even if we're not talking about our creative practice, that we're really connected because of that. Mm. That's a really beautiful way to think about it. I like that. Thank you. So for all the people out there who are curious about using creativity more to thrive with Neurodivergence, what powerful message or question would you like to leave them with today?
Angie, I would like to say that first of all, you are not too much. Everything you do is. Perfect in the sense that you are who you're supposed to be, and I would just say just try [00:20:00] to, as much as you can, get out of the hamster wheel and just mm-hmm. Be who you are. So beautiful. So how can people get to know you better, Angie, and get a real feel for the work you're doing?
I'm at profound creativity.com and I have links to all my work there. Excellent. Thank you so much for coming on today and chatting with me. Um, loved our conversation. Thank you. Thank you so much.
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