Ep79: Soul-led Creative Women
Sam Horton: [00:00:00] So today I have Miriam Schulman. Miriam is a creative entrepreneur, bestselling author, and internationally recognized art business coach whose work lives at the intersection of art, artificial intelligence, and authentic expression. She helps artists and creators escape the starving artist trap.
By combining practical marketing strategy with spiritual alignment, and now intelligent automation. She's the author of Art Preneur, the Step-by-Step Guide to Making a Sustainable Living From Your Creativity and the host of the Inspiration Place podcast. So welcome Miriam.
Miriam Schulman: Oh, thanks for having me.
Sam Horton: So as I was researching our conversation, I was really drawn to some of the language you used around experiencing a soul ache.
So I feel like this is a really fabulous place to start exploring your journey. So tell us about that soul ache and what led you to finally follow it and where it's taken you on your journey.
Miriam Schulman: Okay. Yeah.
So [00:01:00] when I was growing up, I always wanted to be an artist, but like many creatives, I was told, well, you, you can't make a living that way. And I believed them. I took the, the practical route and I went to Wall Street.
Sam Horton: Mm-hmm.
Miriam Schulman: But after nine 11 happened, I knew I couldn't go back.
Mm-hmm. That world. And that's when I started doing my art, but I still didn't believe I could make a living from it. So it, it took a few years before I figured that piece out. but. Yeah, that's, that's what a soul ache is. It's something that, it's not so much that you choose, but it chooses you.
Sam Horton: Mm. So I often, refer to my own experience as like a creative whisper, or a creative calling, which I ignored for a really long time, just like you.
and it's probably really similar to, you know, what you are referring to with the [00:02:00] soul ache. So. I think, I guess on my journey, I've realized that creativity is actually the language of the soul, which is a big reason why this podcast exists. So tell us about your experiences, or thoughts on blending creativity with spirituality and soul growth.
Miriam Schulman: Oh my gosh, I love this question so much. Okay, so this is probably what I was thinking when I wrote Soul Aches back then. Alright, so I've been studying a lot of kabalan in the past year and how it intersects with creativity and one thing that I found fascinating is the way Kabalists believe that the soul has two parts.
We have the creative side that cares about. How and what, and then we have the more, uh, spiritual side that cares about, or the sacred side that cares about [00:03:00] who and why.
Sam Horton: Mm-hmm.
Miriam Schulman: And the thing is, with true creativity, it's not just about the how and the what, but sometimes many creative people we're working on such a subconscious level.
With whatever our mediums are like we think we're just, we're making a beautiful painting, but really our soul knows that we are processing our trauma. Mm-hmm. That we are expressing ourselves with the feelings we don't allow ourselves to feel on the surface level. Now, when you go to. Offer, make an offer of your art or your business or whatever it is that you have.
Not only do you have to stop talking so much about the how and the what. It's not how the painting is made. It's not what actually created, and by the way, it's not even why you [00:04:00] think you did it or who you are. So remember I said Creative side cares about what and how sacred size cares about. Who and why.
When it comes time to offer what you have, you have to think about the who and why of your customer.
Sam Horton: Mm-hmm.
Miriam Schulman: So that's when selling now becomes a more spiritual act.
Sam Horton: Mm-hmm.
Miriam Schulman: So you have this like matrix of how and what and who and why.
Sam Horton: Pretty cool.
So when you were in your, wall Street era, did you still make art during that period?
Miriam Schulman: So what it looked like for me was doing watercolors at my kitchen table. Mm-hmm.
Sam Horton: So I guess, there were some people that sort of shut it off, they completely, as part of that, corporate journey or part of that, gotta be a good girl and do all the right things.
And creativity isn't something that I [00:05:00] can make money from. I'm not only that, but creativity isn't, a good use of my time So, looking at it from that angle, you know, do you, do you see that where people fall in and out of making their art on their creative journey?
Yes, absolutely. You know, like an ebb and flow to it, because it's not Oh, absolutely. Yeah.
Miriam Schulman: so there are also artists who they've given themselves permission not only to make art, and not only to make money from their art. Now they reach this point where there's so much pressure on themselves that they feel that they have to, when they go into the studio, produce a masterpiece.
Sam Horton: Mm-hmm.
Miriam Schulman: And that shuts them down.
Sam Horton: Yeah.
Miriam Schulman: So they, they, it, it's hard to balance that rhythm of honoring the creativity. That's, that the reason you became a creative in the first place mm-hmm. Is 'cause it's something you do for you. Then walking that line. Okay. But also you're gonna monetize it, but then [00:06:00] also dropping away that performance.
Mm-hmm. The pressure of art as performance and, and the, the performative, piece of it.
Sam Horton: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think, you know, it's, I would call it like, being rigid in your creativity, right? So you, you become so focused on producing work of a particular standard, of this particular style of making everything look beautiful.
And even like making enough pieces, you know, like. Like churning them out like a factory. and We can lose touch with the rhythm of our creative soul and the reason why we love doing it in the first place. So, you know, what, what do you suggest to people in terms of making sure that doesn't happen?
Miriam Schulman: Yeah. It, a lot of times the, the people I work with, it's not so much that it's become a factory. but they just shut themselves down.
I myself went through a very, A desert period with my creativity mm-hmm. During the pandemic, because my sources that would fill up my creative well, were gone. To me, I, you [00:07:00] know, I, I, okay thrived on conversation with friends. Gone. I thrived on going into New York City's and going to museums not available.
So the things that would light me up, I wasn't able to tap into anymore. And that creative well did dry up.
Sam Horton: Mm-hmm.
Miriam Schulman: So it's all with creativity. You need to remain curious. You don't need to produce the same thing over and over again. Uh, but creativity does thrive in constraints. Mm-hmm. So if you're known for something particular, well, how can I push this a little bit more within those constraints and then showing up for yourself.
It's kind of like there's that quote. I think it's Chuck clothes, like inspiration's gonna find you working. Mm-hmm. So a lot of, a lot of the danger happens to creatives who feel like, oh, I have to be inspired when that is not true. Mm-hmm. You just have to show up and work. [00:08:00] So that's why, what you're talking about, like the problem that being a factory, it's not so much I see.
I don't see that as much as people who are. If they have a thought that it's going to be like a factory, and therefore that keeps them from working. Does that make sense?
Sam Horton: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I guess it's that balance thing again, isn't it? So, yeah, it could be, I think a tricky balance because on one hand, you are trying to produce.
Work. if you're, if you're in the monetization game, you are trying to produce enough work to sell it, and to sustain, kind of your lifestyle and your business. But on the other hand, you know, there is, a very soulful part of, you know, the journey of an artist and as a creative in terms of, you know, following those ebbs and flows and that rhythm of your soul.
So it can be very tricky.
Miriam Schulman: So I think though that, what's really important is, not to get so, so precious about it. When, when I was writing my, [00:09:00] my book mm-hmm. I couldn't just rely on being inspired. Yeah. Like I had a deadline. And so as an artist, as a writer, and as a business person, you have to be willing to put out work when you're not inspired.
Sam Horton: Yeah, so when you were in the COVID sort of phase, how did you overcome that for yourself then, you know, what lessons did it teach you in terms of that period where you were missing the inspiration that you had relied on? How did you find new inspiration during that period?
Miriam Schulman: I changed my mediums. mm-hmm.
So that's one of the reasons I wrote the book when I did, is that if by changing the modality of my creativity mm-hmm. I could, I could tap into different inspiration. So it's not, it wasn't visual art, it became the written word.
Sam Horton: Right.
Miriam Schulman: I can tap more into creativity for. a YouTube video. So I was looking for different ways to express myself mm-hmm.
Other than [00:10:00] two dimensional. And there were some projects that found me for what I was known for, for the watercolor, but I was fortunate enough that I, I didn't have to chase those because of the way I've, I've created my own business.
Sam Horton: Sure. So as we move through the creative journey, then, you know, as, As people that really lean into creativity as artists, as creative people, you know, how do you think that that, creative journey strengthens our relationship to who we are and the world around us?
Miriam Schulman: Hmm. Beautiful. So I, as human beings, we really are born to be creative. I think it's, it's always a falsehood when, uh, people say to me, Miriam, don't you have to have talent in that?
I think those, there's, they're confusing creativity with skills and humans are designed to create new things. Mm-hmm. This is what we've been doing since the cave times we've [00:11:00] been building, being creative, making wheels, creatives with making paintings, telling stories. Everything we do is really a creative act.
Sam Horton: Mm-hmm.
So as a soul led on a creative entrepreneur, then, you know, what do you believe it means to really step into our creative power and to really grow with it?
Miriam Schulman: There is, uh, letting yourself be bad in experiment and do things that aren't gonna work out. So. This is what I was saying before, you have to show up even when you don't feel inspired creating even when it's not gonna be a masterpiece. Bill being willing to write a shitty book. Not just a shitty first draft.
Like I think that was Ann, was that Anne Patchett who said, you know, shitty first, I [00:12:00] forget. It doesn't matter. I think Liz Gilbert maybe. Yeah. Yeah. One of those. So like, I, like when I was writing my book, I remember talking to Dr. Eric Zel, who. Who talks a lot about creativity is, you know, I'm really having trouble because I understand shitty first draft.
Sam Horton: Mm-hmm. This
Miriam Schulman: is Miriam. Your problem is that you need to be willing to write a shitty first book. It's not just shitty first draft.
Sam Horton: Yeah.
Miriam Schulman: And that's what actually set me free. That I think is what I've been, you know, kind of alluding to all along the, the artist who spends money on their studio and now feels every time they go in there, they have to make a masterpiece.
Or the creative who feels they have to be inspired before they sit down and write a poem. It's like. No, you don't.
Sam Horton: Yeah,
Miriam Schulman: you, you just have to sit down and do the work and put in, put in the reps. And that doesn't sound like it's [00:13:00] sexy and creative, like, oh, aren't we supposed to be in the mood for it? No.
It's kind of like sex, like. You start off, you may not be in the mood, but if you start doing a little massaging and touching, you might get in the mood. So it's, you know, it's the same sort of thing like you put on your apron, put on whatever it is that you feel is your kind of, your, your uniform for doing your craft and having those kinds of touch points and putting yourself in the spot where you're willing.
To take a chance, and here's why. It's very spiritual, because you have to have faith that, okay, this time it may not work out.
Sam Horton: Mm-hmm.
Miriam Schulman: Someday it will. And having that faith in the process that eventually you will get there.
Sam Horton: Hmm. But also I think, you know, it can be a way of approaching life, right? So like the way you approach your art practice and your, your art making and your creativity is not really any different to how you should approach the rest of your life.
You know, it's this kind of creative [00:14:00] energy and this kind of real soulful, soul led, creative approach. Would you agree with that sentiment?
Miriam Schulman: Of course. Like the way you do one thing is the way you do. Yeah. Everything. Yeah.
Sam Horton: Yeah. But I think sometimes we the same, wanna separate them. It's all the same. Yeah.
We wanna separate them. Them, it's all the same. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Miriam Schulman: When I'm talking to my therapist or when I'm talking to, uh, there, there's one thing that I hope we'll get to talk to is about the altar, the daily altar I made up. Mm-hmm. When I'm talking to the altar and. I have this problem and it seems just like this other problem, which I don't think it's related and like, no, it's the same thing.
It's all the same, like whatever patterns we have in our relationships, it shows up in our business and it's gonna show up on the page if you're a writer and it's gonna show up on your canvas if you're a painter. Yeah, it's the same challenges.
Sam Horton: Yeah, I believe there's a real duality to like our spiritual growth and our personal evolution, you know, and our creative journey.
I think there's a real duality there. And what shows up in one will definitely show up in the other, they almost like mirror [00:15:00] each other, and it's for both the highs and the lows, right? So. When you have creative breakthroughs, you are, you are probably having some kind of breakthrough in the rest of your life, right?
But when you are in a creative, struggle, you know, where is that showing up for you? you know, on a personal level. So yeah, I think that's really powerful. So tell us about this altar then. I wanna hear about that.
Miriam Schulman: Okay, so it's a custom GPT, it's called the Art Preneur Daily altar. Mm-hmm. and it's free.
Schulman art.com/alter. I guess you can link to it in the show notes. Yeah, sure, of course. The listeners. Okay, so I, I have four ways of working with it. one way is just my morning reset. I choose a word for the day. I declare what my intentions are, but. The, where the soulful work really happens is when it comes to the prompt where it says, what are you ruminating on today that's interfering with your [00:16:00] flow.
Mm-hmm. So that is when I lay whatever is bothering me on the alter, no matter how petty it may sound to me, but if I know I'm ruminating it, I need to clear the ducks. Mm-hmm. Or I'm not gonna be able to create. Mm-hmm. So it helps me unpack those thoughts. Mm-hmm. it takes you, it basically, what, the way I've programmed it is it has Byron Katie's four questions.
I'm not sure if you're familiar. Yeah. With Byron Kate. Okay. Mm-hmm. So, or if your listeners aren't Byron Katie's the work it takes through her four questions with whatever problem is bothering you or you ruminate on. So it helps you see or reframe those thoughts. Mm-hmm. We invite muses to reflect. Mm-hmm.
So I've programmed some muses that I like, but you're always welcome to call your own. Mm-hmm. So if you wanna say, Hey, what does. Aphrodite have to say about this or whatever, right? So you can call whoever you want. Living or dead, [00:17:00] fictional or not. Uh, I have Edith Warden helps me with my social problems because
Sam Horton: Okay.
Miriam Schulman: Apparently New York women have not changed in over a hundred years. You know, like we're, we're still doing the same pettiness now. And she's like, oh my dear. That's classic. Okay. So, uh, that's my, my daily alter practice and it's, it's so interesting how something will show up mm-hmm. In a personal life and then something will show up in business.
I'll say, oh, this looks like it's the same thing.
Sam Horton: Yeah. It is. It's all just all related and all in sync. Right. We are not separate. We are one. One. That's so cool. So what do you wish that more people knew about, like creativity and art? You know, for people that aren't necessarily in the art game and aren't artists, you know, what do you wish that more people knew?
Knew about it?
Miriam Schulman: Yeah, I wanna circle back to something I'd said earlier. Mm-hmm. I'll oftentimes, especially when people are interviewing me about my book Art Preneur. Mm-hmm. and in that, [00:18:00] and in my talks and on my podcast, I'll say that talent really doesn't matter as much as people think. Mm-hmm. And I'll get a lot of pushback on, it's like we doesn't talent matter.
And it does, but whenever I hear somebody, like a podcast host who's not creative, will say, well, yeah, but I could never do that. I, I would do stick figures or whatever, and what I want the, the, to answer your question, what I want them to know mm-hmm. Is. Those people, they're just not willing to be bad at it.
Sam Horton: Mm-hmm.
Miriam Schulman: Before they get good at it.
Sam Horton: Mm. Because there's a real vulnerability to it, right?
Miriam Schulman: That's right.
Sam Horton: Mm,
Miriam Schulman: that's right. Mm. That's even true with people who do consider themselves creative, but perhaps they've rejected watercolor. Yeah. You know, or whatever it happens to be. Yeah. Like, I, I'm not, I'm just picking that because that's my medium, my medium of choice and what I taught for the most number of years.
Yeah. And you'll say, well, I do [00:19:00] acrylics, but I can't do watercolor.
Sam Horton: Yeah.
Miriam Schulman: I was like, well, what you're really saying is you're not willing to be bad at it before you get good at it. Yeah. So I think in terms of creativity with, with all the things, it's always a willingness. To, and we this, we've been returning to this theme throughout our conversation to be vulnerable to to suck at it first.
Yeah. Before you get good at it.
Sam Horton: And also, you know, for, for artists, you know, there's no reason why you can't have sort of two separate practices. You know, one where you're producing the work that everyone wants to buy, and one that's just for you, like we were saying before, where you can have that vulnerability and that play and that exploration that you don't allow yourself, maybe because you've kind of gotten into a real rhythm with what you're producing for the outside world.
Miriam Schulman: Yeah, no, that's absolutely true. And I am working with an artist now who, I won't give her name, but a very well-known UK oil, landscaped artist. Mm-hmm. [00:20:00] Beautiful work. Beautiful, realistic oil painting landscapes.
Sam Horton: Mm-hmm.
Miriam Schulman: And she has come up with a pseudonym so that she can create her Joan Mitchell style mm-hmm.
Abstracts, yeah. That are like. Crazy and wild and free, and she doesn't wanna confuse the works and she wants to be able to mm-hmm. Explore. Mm-hmm. It fully, without people, you know, judging. Confusing. Yeah. But she's really stepping into a brand new identity. I think eventually she'll probably shed the old one.
I mean, yeah. What she shared with me is. She's, she's even cut her hair short. Yeah.
Sam Horton: She's
Miriam Schulman: like, she's really stepping into a new, a new persona now.
Sam Horton: That's pretty cool, isn't it? Like, you know, even within, you know, the journey as an artist, you can kind of start again multiple times. You know, you don't, you don't have to always follow the same formula that maybe worked in the very beginning.
So that's pretty cool,
Miriam Schulman: especially in 2025. We live such long lives, we [00:21:00] can have several acts.
Sam Horton: Yeah. So cool. So for. Women who are ready to answer the call of their creative soul ache. Going back to the very beginning of our conversation, what powerful message or question would you like to leave them with today?
Miriam Schulman: the message I wanna leave them with is choose to believe. It's how I started my book, art Preneur, and it is such a powerful practice that when you're feeling the soul ache. A lot of what blocks people who haven't taken that leap yet is that imposter syndrome. Who am I to?
Sam Horton: Mm-hmm.
Miriam Schulman: And the more you can tell yourself that story and the more you can tell other people that story by story, I just mean that sentence.
Mm-hmm. I am a, mm-hmm. I am a artist. I am a writer. Mm-hmm. I am [00:22:00] a dancer. The more you can tell other people that you are the first one to hear it and believe it, and that is the first step in unblocking that creativity is owning it. So cool. Owning that identity.
Sam Horton: So cool. And I think with that though, there, there's a journey.
That's a journey in itself, right? Because you need to sort, sort of keep believing, you know what I mean? Like, you, you start, small with your beliefs and then, over time those beliefs need to grow, you know? So as you get,as you step into more and more risk creatively, you know what I mean, as the, as the journey grows.
So that's pretty cool. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So how can people get to know you better, Miriam, and get a real feel for the work you're doing?
Miriam Schulman: Well, if you like what you heard today on, on this podcast, you can come find me on the inspiration place.
Sam Horton: Awesome. So I will definitely believe in all the links that you, mentioned today in the show notes.
Uh, thank you so [00:23:00] much for chatting with me today. Thank you.
Miriam Schulman: Well, thanks for inviting me, Sam. I had so much fun.
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