Healing from the Unthinkable and Thriving Through Art | Ronika Merl

FOR EPISODE LINKS & MORE INFO VISIT: https://samhorton.co/blog/ep44

In this deeply moving episode, Sam Horton welcomes the incredible Ronika Merl, a woman whose life story reads like an epic novel. From her beginnings in an Indigenous goat-herding mountain tribe in the Himalayas to living on the streets of Vienna, surviving human trafficking, and ultimately becoming a screenwriter, activist, and mentor for women who have experienced domestic abuse—Ronika’s journey is one of resilience, transformation, and empowerment.

Through candid and raw storytelling, Ronika shares how her early experiences shaped her beliefs, the painful realities of surviving abuse and exploitation, and the small yet powerful moments that led to her healing and reclaiming her sense of self-worth. She also dives into how creativity, particularly writing and storytelling, became her lifeline and a tool for profound self-discovery.

This conversation is an inspiring testament to the human spirit’s ability to heal, evolve, and create meaning out of life’s most difficult experiences.

Key Takeaways:

• Resilience through Challenges – Ronika shares her remarkable journey through hardship, emphasizing how every experience shaped her path toward healing and empowerment.
• The Power of Self-Worth – Understanding self-worth and making small but significant choices, like buying herself a simple cup of tea, played a crucial role in her healing.
• The Role of Creativity in Healing – Writing and storytelling became an essential part of Ronika’s journey to reclaiming her identity and purpose.
• Leaving the Past Behind – How incremental steps, rather than grand gestures, can lead to significant transformation and freedom from toxic situations.
• Embracing Creative Expression – The importance of creative outlets—whether writing, painting, or other forms of art—in living a fulfilling and empowered life.
• Being Honest with Yourself – Learning to sit with oneself, embrace vulnerability, and ask important questions about truth, healing, and personal alignment.
• Reframing Life’s Meaning – How choosing the meaning of one’s story supports future growth and empowerment.

Ronika’s story is a beacon of hope and a reminder that transformation is always possible, no matter where one starts. Tune in to be inspired by her journey and the wisdom she shares.

FOR EPISODE LINKS & MORE INFO VISIT: https://samhorton.co/blog/ep44

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Chapters

• 0:00 Introducing Ronika Merle
• 3:48 How have your challenges shaped you
• 9:22 How did you find yourself in the world of prostitution
• 21:59 What were the pivotal moments that helped you say goodbye to prostitution
• 28:44 How have art and creativity been part of your healing journey
• 33:21 Layers of creativity as a screen writer
• 36:48 How important is art and creative expression to thrive in life?
• 39:26 Powerful questions to reclaim your identity and power following challenges
• 41:55 Connect with Ronika Merle

Transcript

Ep 44. Soul-led Creative Women
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[00:00:00] Sam Horton: 

[00:00:02] So today I have Ronika Merle with me. Ronika was born into an Indigenous goat herding mountain tribe in the Himalayas in India. She lived on the streets of Vienna in a hippie commune on the Czech border, in a brothel in central Austria, in the hills of the Irish countryside. She's dated a Hells Angel that was twice her age and she survived human trafficking.

[00:00:26] Ronika is a screenwriter. She has directed films and worked with Oscar winners. She's a mother, an activist, and works with women who have survived domestic abuse. So welcome, Ronika. It sounds, it sounds like it really long. I should be 80. Uh, every time, every time my CV, is kind of read out to me like that, it just, I'm just baffled.

[00:00:49] Ronika Merle: It blows 

[00:00:50] Sam Horton: your mind. 

[00:00:51] Ronika Merle: What? Why? Why did you do all that? 

[00:00:56] Sam Horton: Well, it definitely sounds very colourful. I'll give you that. [00:01:00] Yeah. Mm. Mm. So on that note, tell us a bit about your story, you know, how this has sort of led you to where you are today. 

[00:01:09] Ronika Merle: Yeah, it's, it's been a really, it's been a really long, uh, long, interesting winding road.

[00:01:15] Uh, I think I don't really know. I don't really know why, why it all happened the way it did. Uh, it, it was. Yeah, the only way I can kind of describe it is that if somebody had decided somewhere in the ether that, that my book, my book of life should be quite thick and quite full of adventures, that's what they would have put together.

[00:01:38] they would have just written everything. It's like, it's like a writer on a TV show that's in season eight and they need to just fill, they need to just fill run time. Yeah, yeah, sure. Let's stick her into a hippie commune. Let's go. Let's make her eat. Spiders, like, that's what it feels like. It's like the last season of Lost.

[00:01:56] Let's just throw everything in there. 

[00:01:58] Sam Horton: It gets more and more [00:02:00] surreal and more and more crazy as you go along. Yeah, 

[00:02:02] Ronika Merle: we haven't done enough to this, to this person. let's get her, let's get her more. stuff, to happen. All that, all that in my, everything you just read out happened before I was 20. Wow, really?

[00:02:15] So it's just, I don't know. I, I had probably like my last few lives must have been so boring that, boring that I had to put everything in, into the first 20 years of this life. Or maybe I was just, Rushing towards something. I don't know,

[00:02:30] Sam Horton: 

[00:02:30] Ronika Merle: but yeah, so my, the reason we're talking today and the reason I, I do all the work that I do is, to speak to other people who have gone through similar things and maybe because it's very difficult to it.

[00:02:44] and it's my job to kind of, because I have the gift of the gap and I will just talk endlessly if I'm not stopped. so that's, that's my purpose here. so yeah, 

[00:02:55] Sam Horton: wow. Yeah. So yeah, maybe, I [00:03:00] mean, it sounds like you sort of went through one challenge. After another, you know, and I think sometimes we need that.

[00:03:06] I mean, before 20, I'm not so sure, but I think sometimes we kind of need that to sort of wake us up. what would you say to sort of, you know, this series of challenges you found yourself in really early on, you know, how did that, how did that shape you? 

[00:03:19] Ronika Merle: I think, well, I always say, uh, I'm not the person who I was supposed to be, but I haven't met her, so I don't know who she is, so maybe she's not nice.

[00:03:27] I'm quite happy now. I'm quite happy now with, with who I am and where I am and, and my life. So, but, but that's That's obviously been a hard fought battle and I think when we face when we look at bad things that happen to us or when we look at the challenges that we go through, whether that's an external kind of thing that's being done to us or whether that's.

[00:03:51] Just, you know, an accident or whatever. I hate the phrase, take it as an opportunity because it makes it sound like that justifies the bad thing happening, bad [00:04:00] things happening. I never justified they shouldn't happen and you shouldn't, you know, justifying it is not okay. But if you look at, if you look at those things as more of a lesson and more of a, of a, an opportunity, It can be very hard to reach that, to reach that moment. I'm fully aware of how difficult it is to go through the entire grieving process. and reaching acceptance. that's really, really difficult. 

[00:04:31] Sam Horton: But 

[00:04:32] Ronika Merle: just kind of to, to, to know that that can be in your future. So something bad happens to you. You go through a challenge.

[00:04:38] You, you, something is being done to you. You, you have, you know, a life changing event. Every time that happens. To understand that you're going to go through the grieving process, you're going to go through your five steps of grieving the thing, and then reach acceptance, and bounce back and forth between them, you know, you can be angry and then depressed and then [00:05:00] angry again, you know, about a thing, grieving is not just something you do when somebody dies, which is what we misunderstand.

[00:05:09] it also, you also grieve when you have a breakup or when you break your leg. That's a grieving process that you have to follow all the way to acceptance. And as soon as you do that with every kind of challenge,then you can come to a really healthy place of, of understanding that the bad things that happened to you were there to make you into this accepting, loving, kind person.

[00:05:35] because a lot of us, when we go through really bad things, it turns us into cynical, horrible people, or into narcissists or into people who, who are so caught up in themselves and so kind of locked into their own grief. that they cannot see other people's grief, so they don't have empathy. so that's, I think that's, that's the biggest lesson that I, that I learned,

[00:05:58] Sam Horton: 

[00:05:58] Ronika Merle: is to, to really see those [00:06:00] challenges as, as opportunity to find acceptance.

[00:06:03] Sam Horton: Yeah. So good. we get to, to make the meaning of our story, right? We're the ones who get to decide what it really means. And I think when you, that's, I think that's part of, the transformation and, you know, Coming out the other end as a more empowered person and evolved person, um,is because, you know, we've learned the lessons and then we've chosen a meaning that supports us.

[00:06:27] The future us, you know, not the one that's stuck in that grief or healing process. 

[00:06:33] Ronika Merle: Yeah. And whatever that meaning is. Like, whatever that meaning, whatever, if you find, if you have some kind of purpose. However, quote unquote, small that purpose is, if your purpose is to work at a fast food pizza place, and make the best damn pizza there is in this fast food place, that is a beautiful purpose.

[00:06:53] Right. We always, when we talk about this purpose, we always, it's like this grandfalutin kind of, oh, my purpose is to bring world [00:07:00] peace or whatever. No, no. My purpose is to make really good scrambled eggs and find joy in those, in those tiny, tiny, tiny little things. Because when we over, when we kind of over and social media is kind of the worst, or we live in a time where we are, we are bombarded with.

[00:07:18] this grand purpose and the perfect house or the perfect family or the perfect whatever. we so often forget that, that, that meaning, that exact meaning that you were just talking about that we can find, can come out of the tiniest, the tiniest little thing. and that can be a very healing process as well, because if you get up in the morning and you make really delicious scrambled eggs, right, you've already achieved something that You've already achieved something.

[00:07:45] You've been successful at something. and that can be a really small step out of depression and out of grief and out of, trauma. Is to have tiny little small successes, that just pile up and pile up and all of a sudden you're happy. Right. so 

[00:07:59] Sam Horton: yeah. [00:08:00] I mean, that does sort of sound like, you know, the path of healing anyway, you know, no matter if it's a, a big healing process or a small one, you know, we're, we're kind of going through mini traumas.

[00:08:10] but part of that healing is really around just taking one small step that sort of supports, you know, your, your vision for who you want to be in the future, right? rather than, rather than. You know, taking backwards steps, I guess, you know, just one small foot in front of the other. It's how you get there.

[00:08:27] It's not these big leaps, jumps, or, you know, dives, into impossible, things. So some of these, some of these things that you've been through are pretty, pretty heavy, right? So, I mean, how did you, how did you find yourself in the world of prostitution? You know, like, tell us a bit about that. I mean, that's.

[00:08:47] That's very full on. 

[00:08:49] Ronika Merle: Yeah. So I'm going to give all the kind of trigger warnings, that could possibly be given. I'm going to keep it light, but, so my parents, uh, sexually abused me at a [00:09:00] very, very young age. my mother, especially, which is always, that's something that, I don't think it's talked about enough and never kind of, or not never, but isn't really.

[00:09:10] talked about a lot and addressed a lot, especially not in media, where the, the mother is the perpetrator. so that kind of created in me this, this understanding that my body wasn't my own. my body was there for a sexual use, essentially for, for other people. and that I really didn't have a right to my own body in the first place.

[00:09:33] But I grew up quite well, I grew up for my early childhood. I lived in India. I lived in this really kind of secluded tribal community, called the Gaddi people, in the Himalayas. And that was really like, that was really, that was kind of like a 15th century childhood where we didn't really have electricity.

[00:09:53] We had no running water. There was no plumbing. We, you know, herded goats. Uh, we lived in clay houses. So it was, it was very [00:10:00] kind of 15th century. and then I lived in Austria and I had a very kind of, I had a very comfortable, very rich upbringing. I mean, we had a vineyard and horses and, you know, several houses and, you know, it was comfortable.

[00:10:13] but my mother being who she was, or is, she's still alive, is that, you know, she had created this kind of, this narrative within me that what was I good for anyway, well. The only thing I'm good for is, is to provide sexual pleasure to others. So, when I was 16, I met, this man, this hells angel. and he walked into this bar that I was drinking in.

[00:10:43] And, I cannot tell you the reason why I volunteered, uh, to work with him. But it was definitely a voluntary thing. He did not, that's [00:11:00] also something I talk about a lot and that's something I always, always kind of want to stress. I was not forced into prostitution. I walked into prostitution voluntarily at the age of 16.

[00:11:12] and my mother did not push me into, or my mother did not kind of sell me off or whatever. because She had created within me the circumstances under which, or the psychological circumstances under which I would go willingly into the dragon's cave, as it were. so, the reason I went, the reason I agreed to work with Marcus was because I fundamentally Through the, to the very deepest depths of my soul was convinced that that was all I was good for.

[00:11:51] And looking back, that's so heartbreaking. That's such a heartbreaking thing to see my 16 year old self convinced, that that was all I could ever [00:12:00] be. That that was all I could ever should ever aspire to, right? I, I found diary entries of when I was 14 talking about it, how I was probably going to end up as a whore.

[00:12:12] so, you know, I put myself in, in, in dangerous situations as a teenager all the time. I was, you know, sexually assaulted all the time. Because I put myself into that situation. I, I, I don't want to say that makes it sound like I'm victim blaming, 

[00:12:28] I'm not victim, victim blaming myself here, but I really did. I, I was convinced. I had such low self esteem. I didn't even have, like, low self esteem doesn't even cut it. I didn't even know that I was, that there was any self 

[00:12:43] Sam Horton: to 

[00:12:43] Ronika Merle: exist. 

[00:12:44] Sam Horton: But 

[00:12:44] Ronika Merle: it's, 

[00:12:45] Sam Horton: but at 16, that's such a, such a young age, really, you know, a very formative age, you know, the fact that you even found yourself in front of, you know, that type of character is, unusual, I would say for, for a lot of 16 year olds, you know, so you've [00:13:00] obviously just made choices, but, you know, it's what you were kind of.

[00:13:03] around or presented with, you know what I mean? So 

[00:13:06] Ronika Merle: that's exactly it. That's exactly it. I, I had, I had spent my teenage years kind of, you know, that hippie commune I lived in when I was 15. I left one summer's morning and didn't come back until school started again. And my mother never even asked where I had been all summer.

[00:13:23] you know, the only thing that I was actually that really kind of kept me in check was school. So I was in school, I finished high school, while I was working in a brothel. So I studied for my, I studied for my final exams in high school while sitting in a brothel. and I think if I didn't have that, if I didn't have my education, if I didn't have this kind of thirst for, for education, I definitely, I wasn't good at school.

[00:13:51] I, my Latin teacher would tell you that there was no thirst there at all for knowledge. but I, I did, I did have that kind of [00:14:00] tiny little glimmer of, hope, that I did want to have a good education and I, I, I did get that. You probably felt 

[00:14:07] Sam Horton: a lot more normal as well, you know, like a normal part of you was.

[00:14:11] Able to be reflected? I think so through the learning and the education. 

[00:14:14] Ronika Merle: Yeah. And my teachers were amazing. My teachers were absolutely, I'm still in touch with my, with my English teacher, who was just the most wonderful person. he was just, he was an amazing kind of mentor and, and really. helped me and guided me.

[00:14:32] and years later I got back in touch with him and I told him all the things that were going on. I just emailed him this like really long paragraph of like, I'm so grateful to you for being there and this is what was going on. you know, in my life at the time and he just, he, he wrote me back and he was just heartbroken, because he, he knew that something was wrong with me, but he didn't, he couldn't quite put his finger on what, why I was such a weird, [00:15:00] uh, little girl.

[00:15:01] but he, you know, he, he, he came back to me years later saying his heart is broken and if he could go back, he would save me. So it, you know, there were people in my life who were absolutely wonderful to me, and it wasn't like, I don't want people to misunderstand that, that, you know, I was, you know, drugged and beaten and thrown into the back of a van, I, I never was, it was very, you know, I, I, I was beaten, I was sexually assaulted, I was raped, but I wasn't, you know, you know, there, there are layers to this, that definitely I was, I don't want to say I was one of the lucky ones.

[00:15:39] I definitely wasn't lucky, but it could have been, it could have been a lot worse, which doesn't excuse all the things that happened, but you know. 

[00:15:49] Sam Horton: Yeah. So you were making choices that put you in that situation to then, you know, be abused on the other side, really in reality, which is, you know, it's a hard truth.

[00:15:58] So what do you [00:16:00] wish that society, you know, cause this is one of those. It's hidden things, you know, it's obviously happening, and right under our noses, you know, in terms of mainstream society. What do you wish that society knew about this world, you know, prostitution and human trafficking and all of that?

[00:16:14] What do you, what do you wish they knew? 

[00:16:17] Ronika Merle: I think that the most, or the thing that I always talk about, is that if you looked at me, like when I finished school, I went into law school. so I was, I was in law school discussing the Magna Carta with my professor, during the day. And, you know, being in a brothel at night, getting, getting beaten up or, or, you know, dancing on a pole, and, and crying my eyes out every morning on the train.

[00:16:52] but if you had seen me walking the corridors in law school, you wouldn't have known, that that was what was going [00:17:00] on.you wouldn't have, you wouldn't have guessed. Uh, that that there existed a whole other side. And when we talk about, this kind of world, we always assume that it is the only way, you know, a young girl of 18, 19, who's a law student.

[00:17:17] Could ever fall into, could ever end up in that world, is if you kidnap her and drug her and put her in the back of a van and, you know, bring her somewhere to Eastern Europe and, and tie her to a wall or something, which is horrendous. And this happens, of course it does happen, you know, that is the other side.

[00:17:36] that's the side that Hollywood always portrays, which annoys me so much, endlessly, because it's not, it's not realistic. the way it happened to me, also happens. and it never gets shown and never gets portrayed.

[00:17:49] and we don't have to look very far, we only have to look at the freshest example from the news is all the stuff that P. Diddy allegedly did. Nobody was, nobody was, [00:18:00] had duct tape on their mouth, being brought to a P. Diddy party. Allegedly. Do you know what I mean? Would 

[00:18:05] Sam Horton: you say that it's, would you say that it's actually low self esteem?

[00:18:09] That was the kind of core driving factor that really, you know, put you in that situation and made you so vulnerable because you just had such low self esteem? 

[00:18:19] Ronika Merle: Yeah, it was, it was a complete, it was a complete, uh, uh, lack of, of, understanding that I was a human being. I didn't believe that I was the, that was, that I was human at all.

[00:18:32] I didn't really believe that I had any worth whatsoever. and those things came from within. Everything that led me into those situations, were things that came from from within. Had I been given, uh, uh, you know, a good, uh, family life or, or parents or, or, you know, help, then that wouldn't have happened.

[00:18:54] But on the other hand, It wasn't, you wouldn't have known that I needed [00:19:00] help 

[00:19:00] Sam Horton: is it also external validation, do you think, you know, this, this, kind of embed, you know, deeply embedded kind of, idea we have that sort of fulfillment and happiness and all the things that we think we, you know, we want in life that they come from outside of ourselves and come from other people.

[00:19:20] Ronika Merle: And especially at that age, as a teenage girl, you want to be liked, you want to be, you know, you want to be approved of. And then there came this man who, who approved of me completely. Who, who gave me all the attention, who gave me everything that I asked for. And there's a grooming element 

[00:19:37] Sam Horton: to that, right?

[00:19:37] There's a grooming element to it. Of course, 

[00:19:39] Ronika Merle: he was 34 years old, you know. so, you know, so the, the, it was very easy, I think, to get me, anything because I, I barely asked for anything. I would never, like you could have, he, he took me for ice cream once and that was really impressive to me [00:20:00] because nobody had ever taken me just, let's just go to a nice lake and get you ice cream.

[00:20:06] Sam Horton: That 

[00:20:06] Ronika Merle: hadn't happened ever.but also much, much later in life, after all of the, all of the like turmoil that happened before I was 20, I then met a man, here in Ireland. well, I met an Irish man in Austria and then came to Ireland.so, you know, he gave me the bare minimum too, but I was perfectly happy with the bare minimum.

[00:20:30] I was perfectly happy with the bare minimum for most of my adult life. It's only kind of after I got in, like had a lot of therapy and really healed and really kind of understood my self worth and who I was ought to be, that all of a sudden relationships didn't just go with me asking for the absolute bare minimum and setting the bar

[00:20:52] so, so, so very low that, you know, a good morning text would already be, Oh my God, this person loves me, [00:21:00] which is really unhealthy. so that takes a long time. So I didn't find my self esteem until I was well into my thirties. 

[00:21:09] Sam Horton: Could be a long road back, I'm sure. Yeah. So, so tell us then,what was the pivotal shift for you in terms of how you left that world behind you, you know, and, and went on the healing journey, you know, tell us about sort of, you know, how that all went for you.

[00:21:23] Ronika Merle: So I think it was incremental. I think it was the tiniest, tiniest little steps. I tell the story, I told the story on another, on another podcast recently, but I tell it again because, it is so symbolic of, of just the exact. to pinpoint the exact moment when it happened. I love, uh, vanilla tea. It's like, it's black tea, but it has like vanilla flavor in it.

[00:21:46] It's really delicious, but it's slightly more expensive than the normal kind of tea.and at the time I was, I had been brought to Innsbruck and then really I was thrown in the back of a car and just brought away. and I was living in this, [00:22:00] uh, they had put me in this room. In Innsbruck, and I had been living there, and I had been cut off from my family, I had been cut off from the outside world, I had been completely, I wasn't, I had to quit college, I was, you know, completely cut off, and it was really, it was, it was the darkest, it was, I had my jaw broken, it was like the darkest days of my life, and I would always see this, like, vanilla tea in the supermarket, and And I never bought it for myself because it was like a euro, let's say, more expensive than the normal tea.

[00:22:36] And I never, ever, ever bought it for myself for months and months and years and years. I never, I never want, I never, I never thought that I was worth that extra, that extra euro, right? until one day I had been, I had been in a really, really bad way. And I remember distinctly, I had like a bruise on my hip.

[00:22:54] and it really hurt. And I thought, you know what? I'm going to buy [00:23:00] myself that tea. I'm going to buy, I'm going to buy that tea. I'm going to drink, I'm going to have that tea. Because, like, that extra euro is like, it's 20 teabags. So 20 cups of tea that I actually, like, instead of the tea that I was buying, the cheapest, the cheapest tea that I was buying, that I allowed myself to buy.

[00:23:22] And I was like, you know what? No, no, no. I'm gonna spend, I'm gonna spend a euro on myself. And that was such a huge, that was such a huge kind of, I sat down and I drank that tea and I, I cried. I felt so guilty. and there's another situation where I got my eyebrows done. Like I have quite bushy eyebrows and I got the underside of my eyebrows waxed.

[00:23:50] And I walked out of that shop crying because I felt so guilty for having done that, because I wasted half an hour and I wasted like whatever it was, [00:24:00] 12 euro or whatever, and how arrogant was I, how full of myself was I to think that I would be worth Those two things and they kind of happened in the same winter.

[00:24:12] So maybe I don't remember now, but maybe I got my eyebrows done in December and then bought the tea for myself in January. Like it, you know, it was kind of around the same time. and the more I drank that tea. I think it must have been some magical elixir that was in that tea. I don't know what they put in that tea.

[00:24:33] But I should call up Twinings and tell them like this is a really great tea. Your tea will free young women from prostitution. and the more I drank that tea and the more I bought it for myself, like every time I bought it, it was an act of rebellion. 

[00:24:48] Sam Horton: It was 

[00:24:48] Ronika Merle: an act of complete and utter, rebellion and fighting.

[00:24:53] Testing boundaries, you think? Yes, yeah, pushing, pushing back. And the most, [00:25:00] the most ironic thing is, if I had told my pimp, Oh, by the way, I'm going to spend, 20 euro on getting my eyebrows done, and I'm going to spend 4 euro on this really specialty tee that I really want, he would have applauded that, he would have Of course, of course, honey.

[00:25:16] Do, do what you, yeah. Like what? 20 euro? That's not, no, nobody's going to go broke on that. It was an internal, it was an internal boundary. It wasn't, he never put this boundary on me. Nobody ever said I couldn't have this tea. I said, 

[00:25:33] Sam Horton: I said. It's a self worth thing again, isn't it? 

[00:25:36] Ronika Merle: It's exactly that. It's exactly that.

[00:25:39] And then in April of that year, I woke up one morning and I stood on my bed, the bed that I was I had to actually sleep upside down in my bed just so that I wouldn't be in the same sleeping position that I was, it was horrible and I stood on my bed and I was drinking my tea and I looked at the key that was in the lock and the [00:26:00] key was on the inside and I was perfectly capable of walking out that door and I just did, I just did, and that, but the growth had happened so gradually that I didn't even notice, If you had told me the day before that I was going to do that, I would have laughed in your face and said, Of course not.

[00:26:18] This is all I am. This is all I could ever be. But the next day I could, so when, when we, when we're stuck in really, really horrendous situations, and, and that toxic question of why didn't you leave earlier or why, why did you stay? Because you, you can't, you cannot, you cannot leave. 

[00:26:38] Sam Horton: Don't you think it's a little bit about building up the strength, you know, it is internal, right?

[00:26:42] And it's actually like getting brave enough to actually do it. and there's another element to it as well is like, okay, well. You might make some people unhappy by doing it. So you're going to have to be strong enough to be able to hold your shape and to really sort of stand in your truth with it and know that it's the right thing to do.

[00:26:57] Because you can't have people, you know, [00:27:00] basically making you go backward, back on your, you know, your own word or something, you know. The 

[00:27:05] Ronika Merle: struggle afterwards was really, really difficult for, for months and months and months. But because I had taken that, that kind of long run up to the moment, exactly like you said.

[00:27:19] Uh, there was that inner core strength, but it's so incremental. It's, it happens in such, such tiny, tiny, tiny little ways that we really don't notice. especially when we're not actively working on it. Like I wasn't in therapy. I wasn't actively trying to heal myself or fix myself or anything. It just kind of healed itself like, like the human being does.

[00:27:39] It's 

[00:27:39] Sam Horton: actually part of, you know, a more spiritual experience, you know, it's a kind of like a soul, a soul, experience, you know, it's your soul guiding you, basically telling you, you know, this is not good for you and you need to remove yourself from the situation. 

[00:27:53] Ronika Merle: Yeah, that's exactly it. Yeah, 

[00:27:55] Sam Horton: so powerful.

[00:27:57] So getting a bit lighter then [00:28:00] Ronika tell us, tell us about how art and creativity have really played a part in your healing journey. cause I know that it definitely has. 

[00:28:08] Ronika Merle: Yes. Oh my God. It has. I think writing, writing is such a powerful, writing is such a powerful tool for self healing. the stories I tell are always, are alwayscentered around people who are on that exact, very incremental healing journey that they don't even notice until it's too late.

[00:28:28] oh here, you know, I've been healing and now I'm healed. and, and all the kind of difficulties that come with, that come with being a human being. so writing is this really, is this really incredible tool for, for self discovery and, and, and self healing and a really powerful. Journey towards that acceptance we were talking about earlier.

[00:28:51] so I don't think I would be where I am had I not been a writer. if, you know, if education and schooling kind of saved my teenage years, my [00:29:00] adulthood has definitely been saved by, by being a writer and being creative and working every day on, on. It's kind of, you externalize your inner, you externalize your inner world, when you create something.

[00:29:13] You, you put it out onto a canvas or onto a page or into, into an instrument, or into a dance or, or into a rhythm or whatever, whatever your art form expression, uh, should be. And it's that externalization and that taking your, your deep grief and the, the, the pain and the hurt that you feel inside and putting it outside yourself and then experiencing it again.

[00:29:34] it's just that, that beautiful filter, that makes the pain less kind of acute and less. hurtful. so I started writing. I'd always been, I'd always been a writer. I'd always written. I was always writing, you know, from when I was a child. but I kind of started taking it more seriously in my late twenties.

[00:29:54] I'd had my children by then. and I think [00:30:00] I was growing up. I think that's the only thing that really got me started. I started at 27, so I was a, I was a proper adult. I had two kids and an adult brain all of a sudden. so all of a sudden I was like, oh, oh, I was going to be a writer, wasn't I? Uh, oh, I should probably get started on that.

[00:30:18] Because I was working at a really nice, comfortable job at Microsoft, and I had my white picket fence, and my two kids, and my, and my, you know, quasi husband. And, uh, I was like, oh, oh, this isn't, this isn't the plan. I was supposed, I wasn't supposed to work at Microsoft. I was supposed to be a writer. so I started writing.

[00:30:39] And it, it just, it gave me such a backbone. Again. It was like theil all over again. It gave me such a backbone, that I realized that the, the man I was with was absolutely not right for me. he's a great dad. He's a fantastic dad, but he, well, we shouldn't been making, we should not have been together.

[00:30:55] but I realized who I wanted to be 

[00:30:57] Sam Horton: Do you think that the, do you think that the [00:31:00] writing really helped you? figure out who you really are so that then you could kind of line up everything else in your life to support that. Yeah. So. Oh, a 

[00:31:08] Ronika Merle: hundred percent. Yeah. A hundred percent.

[00:31:10] I think, yeah, the, the, the starting, starting to take it seriously and starting to take myself seriously and not just again, dismiss myself and tell myself, oh, this is just your little hobby. Don't, don't be so full of yourself thinking, thinking that you could be something. No. Yeah. I'm going to be full of myself.

[00:31:28] Of course I am. I've won awards for this. You know, I'm, yeah, I'm full of myself. so yeah, it grows your backbone and it gives you this, this, this level of confidence, because again, The, the best thing you can do is have a tiny little bit of, of success and a small little achievement that gives you that sense of control, that gives you that sense of, Oh, I, I did this, whether it's scrambled eggs or whether it's a screenplay.

[00:31:57] I did this. I created this. 

[00:31:59] Sam Horton: [00:32:00] Even if it's just for yourself, right? Because it doesn't matter if you share it or you don't share it. It's the fact that you made it. So I want to just dive a little bit into the layers that I think you must experience because if you're writing screenplays and then people are then, you know, acting those out, it must be kind of a multi dimensional experience for you as your kind of creativity evolves through that journey.

[00:32:28] Tell us a bit about that.

[00:32:29] Ronika Merle: film is such a, film is such a wonderful medium because it can never just be your product at the end. It's always put through a filter of, of a million other people. It's always going to be put through the director's filter if you're not directing yourself. the actors, the, the, the composer who writes the score that underlines it.

[00:32:50] Sam Horton: Yeah, sure. The, you 

[00:32:51] Ronika Merle: know, the editor, the, the, the color grader who puts the color on. You know, there's, there's a million, million, million [00:33:00] steps, for, for a screenplay that you put together to then be made into a film. and some people are really, really afraid of those filters and they want to have control.

[00:33:10] I love. That I don't have control, if I'm not directing, if I'm not directing, uh, uh, a piece or a script, I don't really care. I don't really care whether it, whether it comes out anything close to what I had originally intended. Because I know and I respect that the artists that put their heart and soul into it after me.

[00:33:32] Have just as much creativity, have just as much of a story, have just as much of a, of an input and what an honor, 

[00:33:39] Sam Horton: what a 

[00:33:39] Ronika Merle: tremendous honor it is for, for me to have inspired other people to create art. 

[00:33:45] Sam Horton: Yeah. And to witness it. It's 

[00:33:48] Ronika Merle: incredible. It's like a composer seeing an entire orchestra playing their piece, you know.

[00:33:54] It must also 

[00:33:55] Sam Horton: feed your ideas and feed your curiosity creatively as well, because [00:34:00] they must take it to places that you hadn't thought of before. And so then that empowers kind of a new take on a similar, you know, type of writing experience for you. So yeah. 

[00:34:11] Ronika Merle: Exactly. I mean, there's the best, the funniest thing happened to me.

[00:34:14] I wrote, I shot a TV pilot, in London last year, two years ago, and, one of the actors, uh, he was only supposed to play like a, he's slightly kind of manic, but he was stalking this woman. And for me, when I wrote it, it was just that he was obsessed with this woman and he was stalking her.and she kind of, they, they used to be friends and now they're not.

[00:34:37] and I thought it was quite a toxic thing. That's how I wrote it, that's how I intended it, it was always supposed to be toxic. And then we went through first rehearsal, and the two of them came to me and they were like, this is actually, I mean, the fact that he loves her so much. And I'm like, what? 

[00:34:53] Sam Horton: Where 

[00:34:53] Ronika Merle: is that on the page?

[00:34:54] That didn't happen? Where does he? Yeah, and she loves him too. What? [00:35:00] No, they don't, but they played it in this really kind of almost sweet way where they both were grieving the fact that they couldn't be friends anymore, because they had both taken different life paths. That was all of a sudden that was their rehearsal.

[00:35:15] And I hadn't intended that at all, but it was beautiful. It was gorgeous and it worked perfectly. And I, I, I embraced that. And yes, exactly like you said, it, it fueled their creativity and gave them that freedom to, to express something or to find something in the story that wasn't there before. which is amazing.

[00:35:34] That's fantastic. 

[00:35:35] Sam Horton: Yeah. Benefits everybody. 

[00:35:37] Ronika Merle: Yeah. 

[00:35:38] Sam Horton: So, so how significant do you think then that creative expression is for living an empowered and fulfilling life? 

[00:35:46] Ronika Merle: Oh, I don't think, I don't think, I don't think I personally could fulfill anything if I didn't have some form of, of creative expression.

[00:35:55] I had a, I had a kind of, I had took a big pause, over the summer. [00:36:00] I'd written this really, really big commission, in the spring. I had adapted a novel and then I was just creatively empty with regards to writing. so I started painting again and filled my entire room with, with dozens and dozens of canvases, and just painted for the whole summer, which was a new avenue and a kind of new muscle, that I had to, that I had to learn.

[00:36:25] but it was the same thing. It was, it was a creative expression of something that I couldn't quite put my finger on. that, but that needed an out that needed to come out somehow that needed to be expressed somehow. so it's for me, just for me personally, I don't think it would be possible if you put me at the bottom of a well, I would chisel something into the rock, I think it is just not, it's just not possible for me to not.

[00:36:51] Create something or tell a story or paint something or do embroidery or whatever, whatever it may be. there are people, of course, who [00:37:00] don't have those kind of creative influences and that's fine too. but for me, it's like breathing, I think. You couldn't take it away from me. 

[00:37:11] Sam Horton: Mm. I mean, and like you said, it can take on many, many forms, right?

[00:37:15] So it's not just, you know, what people think of creativity either. It, you know, it can be living a more creative inspired life where you kind of choose the scenic route more often than the efficient, productive route. 

[00:37:30] Ronika Merle: Yeah. You know what I mean? 

[00:37:32] Sam Horton: Yeah.

[00:37:33] Ronika Merle: and actually a lot of like, I work with somebody who works in IT and they actually hire when they hire IT professionals who are supposed to be like very mathematical and very kind of strict to think, they always ask, okay, but do you play an instrument?

[00:37:48] Do you do art? Do you have a hobby? and those people who do play an instrument, who do have a hobby, do, who are creative, they're more likely to get hired because it structures your brain differently. 

[00:37:59] Sam Horton: Yeah. And I [00:38:00] do think that it's part of living a full life, right? So some, if people don't do it, that's fine, but are they really living the life to the max, you know?

[00:38:09] And that's the point I think. Yeah, absolutely. So for all the women out there then who want to reclaim their identity and their power following significant life challenges, what powerful questions would you have them ask themselves today? 

[00:38:26] Ronika Merle: The first, it's, it's more of an exercise rather than a question, is to be naked with yourself.

[00:38:34] Not naked in the sense of take your clothes off, but naked in the, in the psychological sense.to be completely naked and honest with yourself for 10 seconds, 30 seconds, a minute, as long as you can stand it, because your brain is going to wander off.your brain is going to wander off to whatever bad thing happened to you.

[00:38:52] Your brain is going to wander off to other things, to questions. Did I do the laundry? Did I pay that bill? but to be [00:39:00] completely in a room with yourself, quiet, and completely naked and vulnerable.and that's quite, that can be quite painful. So the question I suppose would be, can I do this and how long for?

[00:39:12] whether it's 10 seconds, whether it's 30 seconds, but those tiny little incremental steps. Will then lead to, you know, it's that, again, it's that unnoticeable kind of healing where you don't even notice that you're, that you're on this healing trajectory and all of a sudden, you're, you're naked with yourself and yeah, you're fine.

[00:39:33] Of course. Yeah, I'm happy. I'm happy with who I am. This is amazing. I am, I'm full of flaws and I'm full of trouble, but I'm fine, you know, and this really, really bad thing happened to me and it's not fine that this happened, but I am fine. I'm fine. It doesn't define 

[00:39:51] Sam Horton: me. 

[00:39:52] Ronika Merle: Exactly. So that would be kind of the, that would be the, the thing that I would, 

[00:39:57] Sam Horton: that 

[00:39:58] Ronika Merle: I would do, that I still do.

[00:39:59] when I [00:40:00] kind of feel myself tensing up or getting stressed or struggling, I just sit with myself and I, I kind of ask myself, But am I okay? Yeah, I am kind of, yeah, I could be richer for us who couldn't, you know, I could, my hair could be less, less frizzy, but you know, I could be more efficient with the laundry, but you know, that's fine.

[00:40:24] So yeah, to have those, to have those moments of self love. Yeah. 

[00:40:29] Sam Horton: And, and, you know, are you being honest with yourself? You know, are you, are you actually making decisions aligned with your, your deep truth? You know, that's all the powerful stuff. Awesome. So how can people get to know you better, Ronika, and get a real feel for the work that you're doing?

[00:40:47] Ronika Merle: I'm always, always completely open, for people to reach out to me. I'm based in Ireland, but, uh, I, I travel a lot and my website is, uh, Ronikamerle. com. So just my name, and contact details are [00:41:00] there. I'm more than happy to just chat. Really, if anybody feels like, oh, I've gone through this really horrendous thing, and I just need someone to talk to, I'm there.

[00:41:11] I really am. if somebody's struggling with a story that they want to write, and they can't quite figure out how to do that, that's also something I do. I've done that for, for many people in the past.I have books, that are, that are to be purchased. I have a new one coming out actually in April, called Lakes End.

[00:41:31] so if anybody wants to kind of stay in tune for that, so yeah, I'm very accessible. Yeah. 

[00:41:39] Sam Horton: Excellent. Thank you so much for coming and chatting to me today, Ronika I loved our conversation. Thank you 

[00:41:44] Ronika Merle: so much. Thank you so much for having me on. It was great.